OVERVIEW

This webinar showcased how alumni of the Liberatory Research e-course are applying liberatory research principles in real-world contexts and transforming the field of research. Hosted by Liberatory Research founder Dr. Zuri Tau, the webinar featured panelists Brandi Blessett, PhD (Fall 2024 cohort), Ida Campbell Jones, MA (Winter 2024 cohort), Jasmine Edwards, MA (Fall 2024 cohort), and Tia Sherèe Gaynor, PhD (Winter 2025 cohort). During the 90-minute webinar, alumni shared stories of how they design and implement research projects through a grounding in liberatory research principles.

SPEAKER BIOS

Dr. Brandi Blessett

Brandi Blessett, Ph.D. (she/her) is an associate professor in the leadership and management area in the Humphrey School of Public Affairs at the University of Minnesota. She has developed a reputation as a socially conscious researcher, administrator, teacher, and community partner. Dr. Blessett is co-founder of Praxis Matters, LLC, an organization that bridges theory and practice to help organizations advance their equity goals.

Ida Campbell-Jones

Ida (she/her) is a multidisciplinary scholar from St. Louis City, Missouri. Located in Baltimore, Maryland, Ida is a PhD Candidate in Sociology at the University of Missouri-Columbia. Rooted in Black Studies, Sociology, Political Science, her work is devoted to the protection and preservation of Black life, with a particular emphasis on Black art and music culture—currently exploring topics of hip-hop, Southern Black American expression, and Black women’s wellness practices.

Ida’s research bridges academic rigor with deep community engagement, drawing on participatory action research, case studies, and storytelling to explore themes of sovereignty, identity, and cultural resistance. As a scholar-practitioner, Ida brings a powerful, grounded voice to conversations on equity, healing, and sustainability, Ida is devoted to honoring the legacy of her ancestors with the intention of building toward liberated Black futures, rooted in collective care and cultural continuity.

Jasmine Edwards

Jasmine Edwards, MA, LCAT, MT-BC (she/her) is a doctoral candidate and fellow within Steinhardt Music Education with a focus in music therapy at New York University. Jasmine holds a BM and MA in music therapy from Florida State University and NYU, respectively. Her clinical experiences include private practice, outpatient, school-based, community, and medical-pediatric settings, and she is trained in NICU-MT, First Sounds: RBL, and Austin Vocal Psychotherapy. Jasmine has a vested interest in elevating dialogues about cultural humility in music therapy education and clinical practice within her teaching and academic writing. Her current research focus centers on the experiences of BIPOC music therapy educators and professionals across various contexts. She has served as an adjunct faculty member in the music therapy departments at Howard University, New York University, Montclair State University, Nazareth College, Duquesne University, and Molly University.

Dr. Tia Sherèe Gaynor

Tia Sherèe Gaynor, Ph.D. (she/her) is an associate professor in leadership and management at the Hubert H. Humphrey School of Public Affairs at University of Minnesota. A community-engaged scholar immersed in equity and inclusion, her work explores the intersection of social justice, local government, and identity. Her recent work sits at the nexus of mindfulness, meditation, and public affairs to explore healing pathways for people, policy, and organizations.

As co-founder of Praxis Matters, a consulting firm that supports organizations meeting their equity and justice goals, Dr. Gaynor pairs empirical knowledge with practical solutions to center equity within organizations. Her work has been featured in top academic journals including Public AdministrationReview, Urban Affairs Review, Nonprofit Management and Leadership, and Public Integrity, among others. Dr. Gaynor is sought after for her expertise in equity, inclusion, mindfulness, healing, identity, and justice.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Alright, alright. Let’s go ahead and get started. I am so excited to be with you all today and hosting the first of, hopefully, many alumni spotlight. I just want to start out by giving a shout out to Miko Brown, who is our Community Engagement Manager and is responsible for making sure that all of you all are here and managing registration and getting us all set up today. So, thank you so much, Miko. 

And, I'm super excited to have this stellar group of alumni with us today. Just to give you a little bit of background, Liberatory Research launched in the spring of 2021. Since then, we've had organizers, scholars, program officers, graduate students, and all types of professionals participate in seven cohorts. And, as we prepare to launch the masterclass later this year, we thought it would be the perfect time to hear from our alumni who are living examples of liberatory research in practice. So, we'll be hearing from four of our former participants and they are doing research across a range of contexts with many different communities.

I'm going to turn it over to them to introduce themselves. After they introduce themselves, we'll get to hear from them about their work in a presentation and then we'll do a short roundtable discussion and then we'll take questions from you. So, let's go ahead and jump into it.

Ida Campbell-Jones (she/her)

So, hello, my name is Ida Campbell-Jones. I am currently a…oh, pronouns she/her. I'm currently a PhD candidate at the University of Missouri in sociology. However, I call myself a multidisciplinary scholar. I come from the area of Black Studies and Political Science and Black Liberation Politics and Black Feminist thought, and I'm currently located in Baltimore, Maryland while completing my doctorate. Oh, and I was in the winter 2024 cohort of the Liberatory Research course.

Dr. Brandi Blessett (she/her)

My name is Brandi Blessett. I use she/her pronouns. I'm an associate professor at the Humphrey School at the University of Minnesota Twin Cities. I was a part of the fall 2024 cohort of the Liberatory Research program. And, I have to think on a personal quote or motto. I guess “Get it done.”

Dr. Tia Sherèe Gaynor (she/her)

Hi, everyone. My name is Tia Sherèe Gaynor. I also use she/her pronouns. I'm an associate professor of leadership and management at the Humphrey School of Public Affairs at the University of Minnesota Twin Cities. And my personal motto would be: “Treat your body like it belongs to someone you love.”

Jasmine Edwards (she/her)

Hi, everybody. I'm Jasmine. I use she/her pronouns. I'm a PhD candidate and adjunct professor at New York University. I also teach at a few other universities as an adjunct in the Mid Atlantic region. I live and work on the traditional unceded land of the Lenape people that we refer to as Brooklyn, New York. And my personal motto that really helps to sustain myself in academia is from Audre Lorde, where she says, “The white fathers told us: I think, therefore I am. The Black goddess within each of us—the poet—whispers in our dreams: I feel, therefore I can be free.”

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Thank you all so much. And I'm Dr. Zuri Tau. I use she/her pronouns. And I'm the founder of Liberatory Research. And my quote that I always use—and I'mma keep using it—is: “If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.” 

So, I'm so excited to hear from you all. We're going to be, you know, using a combination of slides and video. So we are going to start with Ida Campbell-Jones. Ida, we're so excited to hear from you. And we'll pass to you.

Ida Campbell-Jones (she/her)

Hi. So, again, my name is Ida Campbell-Jones and I will be talking about the preservation of Black life, language, and music culture and how I use the liberatory research principles in my research and honestly in my life experience. Next slide. I forgot I wasn’t… 

To reiterate my introduction, I'm a doctoral candidate in sociology and I refer to my work as multidisciplinary in Black life culture and collective experience. Next slide. So within my research I emphasize on Black women's narratives and storytellings of our lived experience. I study the identity and memory and experience through music style and dance and digital literacies.

Currently, I'm really into the culture of DJs and concerts and like the collective experience of music and culture, specifically in Black southern culture and Black southern music expression. And so, I center Black women's voices and cultural narrative and preservation and I really emphasize the researchers positionality as an insider of the community that I research as a Black woman from St. Louis, Missouri via Mississippi, via Arkansas, via Africa, the Diaspora. So I consider myself an insider and a protector as a researcher through my work and through my experience. Next slide.

So, currently I engage in collective and multiple case studies and participatory action research. I take an advocacy stance of protection of Black culture and protection of Black women overall—the well being, the cultural expression and understanding, wellness, everything that incorporates the preservation of life for human life. I devote my work and my advocacy for the emphasis of Black women's wellness and life and narratives through my research and I try to engage in anything that I can to emphasize those. You can do next slide.

So, I engage with Black feminist thought and Black radical politics and Black liberation politics. My research and my—I like to say—my intellectual upbringing has been dedicated to honoring our ancestors, honoring where and who we came to be. Really engaging and understanding the history behind the African Diaspora, the understanding of who and what we are as a people, honoring the elders and ancestors, known and unknown, seen and unseen.

I devote my time and my energy to ensure the integrity and relevance and the protection of ourselves as researchers and researched, as a Black people. I do this through engaging in, like, reading lists. I like to recommend books that our ancestors and that our elders have dedicated their lives to that are typically overlooked, currently, in the sociological canon but in the ivory tower in general. I like to emphasize my intellectual canon of Black women and Black authors that engage in the liberation of Black folks. We can do the next slide. 

Now the liberation research principle…the first one I kind of engage with throughout this presentation. But, the first I want to emphasize is the social and cultural uplift and the uplift of the self-identified needs and wisdoms of the individuals and communities we are asking to engage with in our institutional work. In my research, I have encountered the emphasis of “For us, by us” in many ways, shapes, and forms. We are a significant people and we can speak for ourselves. We can create and perpetuate our own narratives. We don't necessarily need to rely on other communities, other people to speak for ourselves. We can do…oh and I like to emphasize wisdom from within the culture and not necessarily a outsider perspective. We can do Next slide. 

So this slide is a quote from one of the interviews from my current project as my dissertation study which I will talk about later in this presentation. And this is the “For us, by us” that I've encountered. This is a DJ and St. Louis native from my dissertation study. She says it was…and I asked her about what she thinks about non-white…or non-Black engagement with Black culture and Black music culture and how she…what her perspective is on this. And she says that her perspective is “for us, by us.” She does not like non-Blacks in Black safe spaces because our culture is something that we made and created for Black people and it belongs to us and we should be the only ones creating and consuming and making money off of it.

And, because it's been something that we've been able to share with the entire world and in that same breath, people have snatched it away from us and monetized off of it where their families are good for generations and don't reap the benefits…I'm sorry, I misspoke. She said “And don't reap no benefits from that. And now we at the point where we got to go through somebody that don't look like us to get what we deserve. But it shouldn't even be like that because at the end of the day, you shouldn't even be where you at if it wasn't for my people.”

So I…So, and this is verbatim from MC, the DJ. She says, “So, I respect other cultures when they can contribute their business mindsets and elevate our record companies and create what we would hope to be nice contracts for artists. But, at the same time, I just don't believe in them benefiting off of our heart, our hard work, something that we created for ourselves to create community, to create a space where we could become, where we could come and enjoy ourselves and have a good time and fellowship with people. Because that was the whole point of that party with the DJ cohort. So, yeah, the whole point of the party was to foster community and share a new experience and a different sound because it was frowned upon to be scratching up your mama's records. So, like, why would I let somebody that don't look like me into that space? And you don't even, like, you don't even know. And I just feel like, genetically, like, I feel like it's embedded in our DNA. Like we're just…Some things just come so natural to us. And I feel like it's music, I feel like it's hip hop because it was made for us, by us. And we're the only people that can make it good, make good ass music.” 

Then she goes to speak about Jack Harlow. “I think Jack Harlow can make a great song, but I don't think Jack Harlow is a great rapper. I don't think he's gonna go down in history. I think Eminem got some great songs, but I don't think Eminem is one of the best rappers of all time. Like, I just don't think they try hard to integrate this space and it's just not going to happen because it's not authentic. It's not in your DNA.” 

So, this is from the perspective of a 30 year old Black woman who has deeply engaged in her community in the curation and preservation of music and the presentation of herself and the presentation of her own identity. And, from her inside perspective of how music and culture should remain within the structure of which it came. Like, we need to honor and keep it to ourselves. There's no…there's not much benefit in the…we've come to see there's not much benefit in the engagement of outsiders within our culture and the preservation and the well-being and the generational well-being and continuance. Okay, next slide. 

And so, that all…most of that quote encompassed the protection of Black cultural knowledge. And this is the…I believe the fourth liberatory research principle of ending epistemic oppression and cultural research and gatekeeping as protection and prioritizing Black voices and critiques, curation, and commentary. And, I do this through the…we can do next slide…through my dissertation research which my current dissertation centers the Black women in hip hop and their lived experiences through conversations of identity and collective experience and understanding of themselves and through different conversations of aspects of hip hop and music culture. And I attempt to reclaim academic privilege in the centering of Black women's voices in sociology through the integration of our narratives in the academy and bridging gaps with integrity. I really emphasize the preservation of our vernacular, of our personality, of our natural voice throughout my analysis and throughout my storytelling of these narratives. I think we can do the next slide.

Thank you. Oh, that's it. Thank you.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Thank you so much, Ida. And I put in the chat: “That flyer is cute.” And those of you who have had to do recruitment, you know, like you got to get the cute flyer.

Ida Campbell-Jones (she/her)

Yeah, I wanted it to have a party flyer like a club flyer so. Because, yeah, if I have one thing to not be boring about when it comes to this process. Got to put some personality on it.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing your research and also the perspective of one of your participants. We'll be passing it to Brandi Blessett. And, we're looking forward to hearing from you, Brandi. So, we're gonna put your slides up and let you go.

Dr. Brandi Blessett (she/her)

Awesome. Thank you. Thank you all for being here. I introduced myself earlier, but Brandi Blessett at the University of Minnesota Twin Cities, using she/her pronouns. Next slide, please. 

So, I'm gonna talk to you about my academic journey and what a journey it has been. But, what you see here is my first professional headshot that I actually took in 2011. And so, I can honestly say that I decided to pursue...I wanted to pursue a PhD. I didn't necessarily want to be in the academy, and honestly had planned to be a practitioner. So, this is actually my second set of locs. So, when I finished my PhD program, I decided I was going to start anew. I'm going to cut my hair, I'm going to cleanse, and I'm going to bring this new person into the academy with me. And so, this is kind of reflective of what you see. 

And so, when I talked to my advisor and told him that initially I decided I thought I wanted to work for HUD and I wanted to be a practitioner, and I wanted to, like, really engage in urban communities. He said, “You know, I think you should go into the academy. You're going to have way more legitimacy as an academic than you ever would as somebody doing research in community. And so, I really think that, you know, you should really think about it”. And I was like, “Oh, okay, right.” Like, I'm new to higher education in this regard, and so I really didn't have a sense of what all of my options were. I kind of went into it with a narrow perspective. And, it's crazy thinking about the indoctrination that you get from the academy, right, because you get a PhD, you gain all these skills, you do all these things, but they really want to funnel you into the academy to do the traditional research, teaching, administrative work and not be of help in the communities for which we are part of. And, I'm in public administration, so it's a field of practice, and it's also a discipline. And so, there are lots of things that really kind of culminate in terms of, like, how we could be a helping profession or how I could be using my degree to serve my community. 

And so, it was interesting because I took him at his word. And so, I put my head down and decided that I was going to be in the academy. So, again, this is my first headshot. And, one of the other things that he said to me was that, “Brandi, you're Black, you're a woman, you're always going to get a job, right. You check off a lot of boxes for many schools, but the difference between creating your own path or being a workhorse is to publish. And so, you need to publish.” And so, in that regard, it was like the “publish or perish” thing became the only kind of North Star that I had. And, it was really like, put your head down and do the thing that you had been trained to do, essentially. So, I'm a qualitative researcher. I care about context. I care about history. I care about race. I care about equity in a way that my discipline doesn't. And so, I began to examine this tension because the research that I was doing wasn't being recognized in what was considered our top fields journals, and it was also really considered “me-search” or very subjective and not really rigorous.

But, I wanted to prove myself. I wanted to make it so that I could demonstrate that I had the capabilities to actually do this work. And so, I put my head down, and in those first couple years, I published, I had book chapters, I taught, and I did a ton of service. And, again, to his point, I check a lot of boxes. So, it was always great to be like, “Oh, I got this Black woman on this committee. She's doing this thing,” and your face is everywhere, right. Next slide, please. 

So, I get to a space where I'm continuing to chug along. I switch schools. I'm now in a space or in a location that at least gets me closer to communities that I care about. I'm still doing the publication thing, but, in this moment, I'm excited because my work is now reaching the people that I read. So. people are starting to know me. I'm going to these conferences. I'm starting to do all of these things, but still not feeling complete or whole in the work that I'm doing because parts of myself are missing.

So, not only am I more present in the field, I have a lot more service. So, I'm still doing the research, I'm still doing the service. But, it wasn't until we got a DOJ grant on the experiences of LGBTQ people with police in New Orleans that I began to understand, like, this is the type of work that I could do and it started to be recognized as rigor, right. So, it was like, okay, this is a way that I can begin to kind of fit in the discipline. But, even with that, I still felt incomplete. And so, I did all of these things. I started a consulting company. I was out in the community doing the work that I wanted to do. But it wasn’t until…but I was still frustrated in the field. 

And then, I get a phone call or an email that is introducing an idea or an opportunity for me to go and start the first Master's of Public Administration program with a social justice focus, right. So I'm like, oh my God, this is amazing. Because everything that I feel like students are missing or that I didn't get in my curriculum, in my education, I get to make sure the students who are actually going to work out in community have a race conscious lens. They think about equity. They don't consider themselves the experts. They want to be in community and they want to collaborate in community. Next slide, please. 

I move again. And, in the process of this move, I am the director of this program. I'm still publishing everywhere. But then all hell breaks loose because COVID happens. That is in the moment when all of the things for me personally began to converge. So, we have COVID, we have George Floyd, and we have this incessant work culture where it's grind, grind, grind, you never get to sleep. It's all about productivity. And, in the midst of all of these things, I'm personally experiencing considerable loss. I lost my cousin, I lost my grandmother, I lost all of these things, never having been able to process any of it because it's all about the work. I also realized that I'm a team of one in Ohio that doesn't allow…or Ohio is moving in the direction of Florida. So, equity and DEI is about to be outlawed and banned and everything about the core of who I am as an academic, the things that I care about in this new program that I have built is about to be undermined before we really get started. 

And so, in my DJ Khaled voice, “another one.” We move again, right. But in this move…next slide, please. But in this move, I decided if I'm going to stay in the academy, I have to make it what I need it to be. I'm no longer willing to give up parts of myself. I'm no longer willing to just go along to get along. And so, in the transition to a new job, we negotiated sabbatical. I keep saying “we” because Tia is my wife. She's going to talk about our project in a little bit. But just to give you context on the “we.” In 2024, this past year, we embarked on a sabbatical. And if you've never had one, please find a way to take one. It's the most beautiful thing that you could have ever imagined because it's the first time in my 13 years as an academic that I got an opportunity to be still, to sit, to read, to reflect, and to really think about who I wanted to be moving forward in this part of my career.

I am fortunate enough to say that I'm not on a 10 year grind anymore. I don't have to just publish or perish. I can really be intentional about the work that I do and the ways for which I can engage. I think about Bryan Stevenson “moving at the speed of trust.” And so, in the relationships that I'm working with now, in the collaborations that I have now, it is more about the quality of those relationships as opposed to how fast can I get a publication out. And so, those are the things that really resonate with me. So,I think about sabbatical and the fact that I got a chance to read all these amazing books. I really got a chance to settle into self-care. So I started journaling. I love the Peloton. It's always been a part of…since COVID I've been down with the bike. But, even started meditating. So, my wife, she leads meditations. I started sitting in on her dharma talks. And this level of stillness came upon me that I had no…I just didn't know what to do with. Like I could see, I could hear, and I could really begin to imagine that if I'm going to stay in the academy, that these are the things that I need to do for myself in order to survive, essentially. Next slide, please. 

And so, this is where I'm at. I'm going to start school in the fall. I'm so not ready. But I'm trying to prepare myself and, as best as I can, I've tried to use the last year to kind of create a shield around myself. How do I value and honor my boundaries? How do I think about the work that I want to do and be intentional with the communities? I'm only doing passion projects moving forward. So, my “no” game is real strong. And, to give you an example, that same PhD advisor a couple weeks ago sent me a text message and said, “Hey, Brandi, would you like to be a part of this committee and work with such and such?” And, I text him back, verbatim, “Absolutely not.” And so, he was super shocked and surprised by that. And, when I offered him an explanation that I'm only doing my passion projects, that I'm only doing work that aligns with who I am and where I am in this moment, he said, “You know, this reminds me of the 2008 Brandi that I met when you first started your PhD program.” 

And so, in that regard, I had all these grand ideas about how I wanted to use my PhD then, but I walked in his path. And, in 2025, moving forward, I'm only walking in my path. What that means is, you know, doing the work that centers Black women and their experiences with respect to, you know, intersectionality and elevating that expertise that has been offered for generations, thinking about working in communities and being intentional about how to use that research to better support those communities—not for the publication but—for the broader knowledge and good. And, one of the things that I've always wanted to do was go up for full [professorship]. But I realized that if I go up for full, I'm going up for full because I want to go up, not because I feel pressure or I need to prove it to anyone other than myself. 

And so, more than anything, trust yourself, trust your journey. And, in so many ways, I wish I had just listened to who I was then, as opposed to being directed and guided into all of these other directions. But the reality is, this was my journey, and I have such a greater appreciation for where I am and how to continue on that path if I didn't have that lesson. And so, more than anything, I just...for all of you burgeoning academics or even rugged academics out there, there is more than one path to do the thing that you're interested in. And so, thank you so much.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Thank you so much, Brandi. It was during that sabbatical that I got to meet you in class, which was really, really amazing. And I'm glad you're here sharing your wisdom.

Dr. Brandi Blessett (she/her)

Thank you. And I was supposed to talk about that, but I'll talk about it in Q and A.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Alright, wonderful.Yes, we have time. We have time. We're going to get into it. I'd like to pass now to Tia. 

Dr. Tia Sherèe Gaynor (she/her)

Hi, everyone. Really happy to be here. I'm going to do my best to follow Brandi’s sermon that she just gave us, y'all. So, I'm actually going to talk about a project that Brandi just referenced, our Predatory Policing Project. It was a community partnered project that we did in New Orleans. And so, neither Brandi and I have roots or connections to the city of New Orleans, but we really wanted to do this project.

When we started to embed on trying to identify partners, we started speaking with people, and there was someone who recommended that we go to the Community Book Center—next slide—to connect with Mama Jennifer. So, this is a picture of Mama Jen. She is who I would call the Oracle. She knows everyone. She knows everything. The Community Book Center is a bookstore, but it's so much more than a bookstore. It is where families come to gather. It's where non-biological family come and gather. They will feed you if you are hungry. They have community events. It's just a really beautiful space.

And, I call her the Oracle because she has probably read every single book that they sell and can offer you the quote and page number from any book at any particular time. And so, she's actually quite remarkable. And so, we got a grant from the Department of Justice. We had no connections, and we went to Mama Jen for help, right. Someone told us that if you got her blessing, she would open the door for you. So, we walk into the Community Book Center, we meet Mama Jen, and she asks us three questions: “Who are you? What do you want? And how will the community be better when you leave?” And your answers to these questions and how she feels about your answers to these questions will determine what kind of access she would give you to the community and her resources. Next slide. 

So, I have to be honest. When she said the question, who are you? I was like, “What?! Girl?! Like, who am I?! Like, what do you mean, who am I?!” And, I quickly had to take a step back and I had to check myself because I realized that she wasn't just asking who was I as an individual, she was asking who was I as a scholar. New Orleans—since the levies broke as a result of Hurricane Katrina—has been heavily researched extensively, often by researchers who come in, extract knowledge and resources, and leave and don't provide anything back, right. So, Mama Jen was asking like, “Who are you in this context? How are you going to show up in this community? How are you going to show up with us as partners in this community?”

So, I really had to think about, and we had to think about, how are we going to answer this question. Because we knew we didn't want to be those helicopter researchers, right. We knew we wanted to be authentic partners in this project. And we knew we wanted to show up in ways that demonstrated that we were following the leadership of our community partners, not leading this work, right. And so, we had to show up in ways that not only communicated who we were as scholars, as people, as researchers, but also who we were going to be as partners and how we were going to demonstrate that we could be trusted with the stories that people were going to share with us. Next slide.

And so, she asked us, “What do we want?” Right. So, ultimately, as a researcher, I want to leverage the privilege that I get because I have these three letters, a PhD behind my name, right. And, I want to use that privilege to be able to—at the very least—create opportunities for people to exercise their voice, right. I am never…you will never hear me say that I do work that empowers other people because I don't believe that people have lost their power. I believe that there are obstacles that have been put in place that prevent people from exercising that power. So, I want to use my leverage as a scholar to remove those barriers to allow people to better tap into and exercise their power.

We wanted to give money to the community, right. We wanted to leverage the grant money and the money that we got from our university to give to those who are working with us, who are participating in the research project and to our community-based organizations. This project focused on the experiences of people of the global majority—so folks who are of color who also identify as LGBTQ—and their interactions with the police in New Orleans. And so, we wanted to illuminate these experiences outside of the white gaze because we know that oftentimes our stories are told through a lens that centers whiteness. And, in fact, when we wrote this article up and submitted it to the first journal that didn't publish it, we got a comment from a reviewer saying that we didn't have a white comparator group, so how can we know that these experiences were just because folks were people of color, it could be a wider phenomenon. But for Brandi and I, we wanted to tell the experiences of this specific group of people. We weren't interested in the experiences of folks who were not of the global majority, and we were not interested in what law enforcement had to say, right.

We also wanted to create opportunities where we were supporting our partners and other interested community members in thinking through policy solutions that they might be able to work toward and also practices that they might be able to engage in to either minimize the impact of or address the issue in a larger way, ultimately stimulating wide community-based conversations. Next slide. 

And so, in order to do that, we used Q-method, which is a empirical way to measure subjective data. And so in Q, unlike survey research, where a researcher creates the survey questions, the statements that are sorted by participants in Q-method come from the community themselves. So, we have statements that are from people who are directly impacted, they're being analyzed by people who are directly impacted, and then when we do our data analysis, we're able to identify the pervasive perspectives that exist. And then, we really wanted to think about how do we communicate our findings. And so, we decided to do a community art event. Next slide. 

And so, we did this event. We titled it (Inter)SEX/SHUN/ALL. And so, this was an all day event. We worked with a local community organization to put the event on. We talked about our work and our research. We also gave our data to three artists, three queer artists in New Orleans. And they each interpreted their data and we had an art exhibit. Next slide. And so, you could see here to the left, there's a smaller image of a altar that was created as part of the art exhibit. We also did group level assessment. And for those who aren't familiar with group level assessment, it's a method that's often a part of community-based, participatory action research where folks who are connected to an issue or in the community go through a process where they are identifying issues, but also solutions to those issues and strategies to address those issues. Next slide. 

And so, here's an image of the altar that one of the artists created for us. And this was to honor people who have been lost by police violence. Next slide. Here is an artist with their photography work and this represents intersecting identities, and so the ways in which people carry multiple intersecting identities. And next slide. And this is a slide that really shows the ways in which social control has been used over folks in the community by local law enforcement. Next slide. And so, the other thing that we did was we had a play that was a part of this. And so, the Crime Against Nature by Solicitation law is a policy that we can talk about later on, but it wasn't something that was directly centered in our research project, but it was located in the ecosystem of our project because it creates opportunities for engagement with local law enforcement. And so, we had a play that illustrated the impact of the CANS policy, the disparate impact that the application of the policy has on Black women and Black trans women. And so, again, really wanting to engage in work that not only was research, but that also provided a space to have conversation and really to give something or to leave the community with something.

We were planning for the exhibit to be up for, I think, two weeks. It ended up staying up for like three months. There were thousands of people that came through, state legislators came through, and the art exhibit really stimulated conversations about policy change there. And so, more than anything, really thinking about how do we translate our research, right. We're required to publish in these academic journals, but how do we translate our work in ways that are meaningful and impact to folks in community. And so, happy to dig deeper in our Q and A and really appreciate your time here. Thank you.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Oh my goodness. Thank you so much. That altar, all the art is just so incredible. We are going to pass now to Jasmine for our final presentation. Thank you so much, Jasmine.

Jasmine Edwards (she/her)

Thank you. Thank you, everybody. I'm so blown away and inspired by the offerings and I feel a great deal of alignment, particularly around the arts and the prevalence of the arts in all of our presentations and all of our work. Can you see my screen? Can you see my slides? Okay, great.

So, I'll just start talking a little bit about who I am and what music therapy is. So, I am also approaching this originally as a practitioner. I'm a certified music therapist and very generally music therapy focuses on utilizing music to support individual goals that relate to a person's health and well-being. And so, most of my experience has been in the medical pediatric setting working with children and their families, which I'll talk a little bit more about. But, today, my presentation is centered on the liberatory potentials of music therapy and also my current dissertation proposal. So, I was a part of the fall cohort. Actually, Brandi and I were together in a couple of different breakout groups. So, fall 2024, which was wonderful timing as I moved into dissertation proposal seminar. So I have the good fortune of being so influenced by these liberatory research principles to hopefully guide the way that I implement my project. 

I'm in New York City and, of course, right as I'm starting to speak, I hear a jackhammer outside. Can you still hear me? Okay. Okay, thanks everybody. Okay, so just a little bit about what I view as the liberatory potential of music therapy and perhaps this is related to why so many of us have turned to the creative arts in our research process projects as a way to share our findings or to understand them more deeply.

So, one of the ways that music therapy is supported in its general existence is the fact that music is a cultural variant. There is cross-cultural prevalence of music to support well-being. One of my favorite examples of this is the use of lullabies across culture. As human beings, we are compelled to use our voices to connect with little ones. We are compelled to sing. But the sound of lullabies is culturally dependent. The key that they're in, the harmonic structure, the rhythm is dependent on the culture of origin. So, we all want to use music for the similar function, but its manifestations are culturally determined.

Similarly, music has a historical role in the formation of cultural identity. It influences how we build community and how we connect with one another. Right. Music is prevalent in worship practices, in group music-making experiences, how we grieve together, how we celebrate together. Music also is apparent in many social justice movements, probably most clearly through the use of protest songs, songs that are meant to elevate an experience and call it out and push back. And, in the same way, music can be used to bolster resilience, but also support acts of resistance. And so, on the right side of the screen, you'll see a couple of reflective questions that I would like to offer to you all. And maybe they could come up in our conversation at the end or just be some things that you percolate on. But I wanted to include them because they are emblematic of some questions I actually ask people when I work with them, when I'm in the role of therapists working with people who are receiving music therapy services or clients or patients. And, I feel like this helps to forefront the liberatory capacity of music therapy by really challenging the hierarchy of therapist and client, right.

I say often just outright, that “Just because I'm a music therapist does not mean I am the gatekeeper of music for well-being. Right. Music has existed in this way for thousands of years  snd I believe and know that you have knowledge about this that I don't. You know things about how music works for you and I hope that in our work together we can collaborate and see the ways in which your relationship to music can support what we do together in a therapeutic process.” So, I might ask somebody straight up, “How does music exist in your life?” And, if that feels like a very big, daunting question, I might ask, “Well, do you use music to go to sleep at night, or we're in New York City, do you listen to music on the subway? Does music support your transition from different parts of your day?” So, I leave these questions for you to all percolate on, and I would love to know some thoughts maybe in our discussion at the end. 

And still, despite music therapy's potential to be liberatory, it is still a codified profession. Now, I'm not going to get into the weeds of exactly how music therapy was founded, but I will name quite clearly that music therapy has been modeled after Western mental health practices and the medical model. And this is perhaps to try to legitimize music therapy to make it competitive and relevant. However, through this alignment, we also adopted many of the harms that are inherent in both of these professions. One of those harms is this sort of colorblind approach. And I know when I was brought into music therapy, people often said, you know, music therapy works so well because music is the universal language, it works for everybody. However, that's a total fallacy, right. That assumes that we all use the same music language and oftentimes that is code for we all use Western music language, right. That's the default. However, the truer statement is that the use of music is universal, but its manifestations are culturally dependent. 

And, to continue to kind of clarify the things I was noticing in my own positionality as a Black mixed race music therapist, I also look to the literature of other BIPoC-identified folks who are commenting on and critiquing the profession of music therapy, how it impacted their situatedness, and how it impacted their work. And so, many music therapists who hold these historically marginalized identities have commented on what has been missing in their music therapy training and practice, that they were not given much guidance about the ways in which cultural dynamics could manifest in a therapeutic relationship, or they were not exposed to or there was no value given to non-western music cultures. There were no skills to sustain practice if you find yourself learning and working in predominantly white institutions that could be hostile towards your own identity and a lack of acknowledgement of music's historical relationship to social justice. They also point out a lot of things about what is wrong and harmful in the profession. Experiences of bias, prejudice, reenactment of the -isms, or a lack of resources and opportunities for recourse when harm occurs. 

So, in these accounts I noticed whispers of how people coped, how BIPoC folks coped within this profession, how they sustained themselves, who they went to, what they turned to to gain this essential learning and support that was absent from more traditional contexts. And so, my own personal experiences corroborated what I saw in the literature, which is that people would gather. Gathering as a protective measure. So, on the left side, this is me, sophomore year at Florida State University, kind of by my lonesome, only Black person in the whole program, trying to really find my way. And, here is me many years into living and working in New York City with a group of other creative arts therapists who gathered at NYU to create a devised theater music-based performance about our experiences as Black and Brown creative arts therapists. So, I was noticing and I found myself going to spaces to gather with people who looked like me and shared aspects of my experience or were in alignment with my values that were absent from these traditional contexts.

So, noticing that myself and my peers were going to affinity groups, we were engaging in peer supervision, we were seeking out mentorship, and we were also engaging in public community-based music experiences. For my dissertation proposal, I'm labeling these kinds of spaces as “supplemental support spaces.” They supplement learning that is absent in our profession and they also provide support when we encounter experiences of harm. So, the overarching study question is how do BIPoC music therapy professionals locate and engage in supplemental support spaces for our professional and personal development? And, I ask this question keeping in mind that people are already doing things to counter, supplement, and care for one another. So, it's challenging this focus on the deficit mindset that there’s something wrong with this community, they need something from us as external researcher as opposed to wonderful, wonderful things are already happening. How can we understand that more deeply, uplift what is already occurring—the voices that already exist, the power that already exists to jump off of Dr. Tia's point and elevate those protective measures? 

So, I'm proposing for my project to start with in-depth, open-ended semi-structured interviews to bring in the arts component. I will be engaging in creative responses, so engaging in poetry, music-making, movement in response to the accounts and the conversations that I have with folks with whom I share many aspects of my identity. Right. I will share in the experience of being BIPoC and I will also share in the experience of engaging in a number of supplemental support spaces myself. After the interview, I'm going to ask folks to share a piece of music with me that is emblematic of their experience in these supplemental support spaces or emblematic of their identity. This could be a pre-existing song or an improvisation, a live recreation of a meaningful piece of music. And then, to align with the bigger question, we are going to gather so we will have a focus group, as well, at the end that is meant to hopefully emulate the function of supplemental support spaces, that something different happens when we gather. New kinds of knowledge are generated in a group, which is definitely in alignment with the Black feminist tenets that are so prevalent in liberatory research. 

Here are a few more ways that I'm connecting the research proposal and these principles from liberatory research. So, it's utilizing an ecological model, this focus on healing the healer, caring for the caregiver, that the well-being of BIPoC practitioners impacts the quality of care provided and, therefore, impacts the people that we serve as music therapists. Again, focus on strengths-based and resource-oriented approaches. It's focusing on taken for granted or tacit everyday knowledge values gathering, which I think is important when Western mental health has told us that healing only happens one-on-one privately with your therapist, when actually healing can happen in community. And, for many of us, that is indigenous to our cultures of origin, this emphasis on mutuality that I am a part of and within this research, that I am a part of this community. And, I have a couple of measures to hope to create an experience of reciprocity between myself and the people that I'm talking to. I have a deep relationship to this topic. I have intimate bias. I'm considerate of the power that I hold and have measures for that, as well. And the music share hopefully supports music's potential to represent identity and be a tool for self-definition and advocacy.

And so, with that, I was going to end with a very brief moment of music if I still have a little time to do that and if my sound comes through as I compete with this jackhammer outside. But, this is a song that would be my music share that I think I will contribute to this project as kind of an insider to it. And it's a song called “Woyaya” and I Learned it from Dr. Barnwell of Sweet Honey in the Rock. She sang it to me by row in the way that I am going to sing it to all of you right now. And, it was originally written and performed by Osibisa, a Ghanaian group. And, the words “woyaya”  mean “We are going.” provides me such solace in this turbulent time where we know change is needed, but the manifestation of that change perhaps is not completely clear. So, you are very welcome to sing along with me. There is a call and response portion and I'll teach the call and response part first and then you'll hear it come around again.

Jasmine starts playing the guitar.

But it starts like (singing) Woyaya. And you sing: “Woyaya. Woyaya. Woyaya. Woyaya. Woyaya. Woyaya. Woyaya. Woyaya. Woyaya. Woyaya. We are going. Heaven knows where we're going but we know within. And we will get there. Heaven knows how we will get there. But we know we will. It will be hard, we know. And the road will be muddy and rough, but we'll get there. Heaven knows how we will get there, but we know we will. Woyaya. Woyaya. Woyaya. Woyaya. Woyaya. Woyaya. Woyaya. Woyaya.”

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Oh, Jasmine, thank you so much. Oh, that's beautiful. I think there was so much singing happening, no one was off mute. But we sang it. We're with you. We feel you.

Jasmine Edwards (she/her)

Thanks, everybody.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Oh my goodness. Thank you all so much for sharing from your heart and sharing just a small slice of all the goodness that you're bringing into this world. 

We are going to take a moment to hear a little bit more from each of you about your journey. And, you know, all of you have very different stories, and I'm curious about how did you end up being a researcher? How did you choose research, or how did research choose you? Tell us a little bit more about.

Dr. Brandi Blessett (she/her)

I guess I'll bite the bullet. You know, I think about growing up in Detroit, and when I couldn't sleep at night, I would…I lived in downtown, in a townhouse, downtown Detroit. And it was right…the freeway was right behind our house. And so, when I couldn't sleep at night, I would sit up and watch the cars go by. And, one of the things that I always remember asking myself was, “Why do cities look the way they do?” I had the privilege of traveling with my family. We went to New York. We went to Charleston, South Carolina. North Carolina. We did all these things. And, I realized that Black communities looked very different in different spaces than they did when we went out to the ‘burbs. And so, being from Detroit, you cross eight mile, the streets are a little cleaner, garbage cans are out. You know, like, it just aesthetically is different and I've always wanted to understand that. And, that's really what I wanted to kind of…that's what I wanted to spend my time doing. 

Now, as a kid, I didn't know that that would be through a PhD or through the academy, but those are the things that always kind of resonated with me. Like, what is it about Black people and their conditions or circumstances that make them the way they are? Recognizing that we didn't choose this, it was forced upon us and how. And so, that is kind of what drove my interest in doing the research that I do.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Wow, thank you.

Jasmine Edwards (she/her)

I think my emerging interest in research is related to my identity as a therapist and being curious about where does this come from, not staying with somebody's behavior and pathologizing and stereotyping based off of what is manifesting, but curious about what has this person lived through? What have they gone through? What is influencing how they show up? And then, as I started my PhD journey, I came across this Zora Neale Hurston quote that I think kind of encapsulates why I'm drawn to it. Where she says, “Research is formalized curiosity. It's poking and prying with a purpose.” And that curiosity resonates with me. I want to know. I desire to know. So, that has been energizing for me as an emerging researcher.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Yes. Thank you.

Dr. Tia Sherèe Gaynor (she/her)

Y’all are so deep. I needed a job. That's like real talk. Like, I got a PhD. I didn't know what I was doing. I was like, “Oh, maybe I'll just go get a PhD.” I don't know why I was getting a PhD. I just did. And I feel like part of the PhD process really…I mean it directs you into the academy, right. Like they want you to be academics and PhD programs. They really don't want you to go into practice. But, I finished my PhD and literally I needed a job and I was applying to a whole bunch of positions, academic and non-academic, and the academic position is the one that came through. But, I think as I began to become more rooted and grounded in the academy, I realized a couple of things. One, I realized that there was a lot of privilege in being an academic. You could access people and communities and conversations and ask questions that I don't necessarily think I could have as a non-academic.

I think job-wise, for me, it works. It's super flexible. Logistically it worked too. But in thinking about where I am now and to more directly answer the question, I think research chose me. And, I'm grateful to have gone through an evolution that moved on a similar path to Brandi's that led me to a place now where I'm able to do what I call my heart's work in the academy. And, I truly believe that we all can do our hearts work in the academy. It does require resisting and everybody's not going to be happy about it, but that doesn't mean that we can't do what brings us joy in these colonized and very predominantly white and white supremacist spaces. 

And so, overall, research chose me very early on. It was quite practical and very logistical. But then after a while I really did begin to connect to my voice and the things that I wanted to say and the conversations that I wanted to have.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Yes, okay. I mean, I'm glad you were chosen, clearly.

Ida Campbell-Jones (she/her)

So, I think I would say it's a combination of both. I think that research as the gift chose me, but I kind of happenstancely chose the academy. But I would like to credit, like, my nosiness and my yearning for some form of understanding and reasoning for things as, like, kind of how we kind of chose each other. But, I was guided toward graduate school and a PhD program by a professor of mine because he was kind of right, like, I wouldn't…I, like, he kind of…he knew me so I wouldn't go back to school if…snd I would be better off doing like going straight through because I was more likely to get like a better funding situation. So, he was absolutely right in that, because I used to want to be a professor. I used to want to, you know, live in the academy. And so, he suggested that I go straight through if that's what I wanted anyway. And so, he was right in that sense for what I wanted in that time.

And, it turns out, I didn't really need the degree for what I want to do now, but I did…in hindsight, the experience and the insight and the understanding of this industry and the understanding of research, like, I wouldn't have been able to gain this experience through engaging with this process. So, it's kind of like I'm grateful for it. And, however, the academy is not my ideal place of stay. 

And I think my purpose in research has been guided by Audre Lorde's quote of “The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house.” And, also from my professor—my professor, Dr. April Langley—she's one of the most brilliant people that I've ever met. She told me in the beginning of my graduate…in the transition of my senior, like…graduating from undergrad graduate school process, to take everything that sociology gives me and make it Black. And, in that, that's kind of how I guide myself. I take everything that I experience and make it Black in some way, shape, or form. And so, those are the kind of the ways that I choose…me and research choose each other. So, yeah.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Yes. Thank you so much. And there's…I think what you're saying and what many of you have mentioned is, like, the importance of having people to pull us along when we're not quite sure this is the place for us or how to carve out our own place. And that's definitely a through line that I'm hearing you all talk about. And I'm really also thinking about where we are in the world right now. You all didn't just start this journey. It's been, you know, a long, long road, right. And, with all that's happening right now, why do you think liberatory research matters in this moment?

Ida Campbell-Jones (she/her)

I think. Well, not, I think…I say a lot that we are in another era of reconstruction and in engaging with the ancestral knowledge of preservation and moving forward and that's what I emphasize, the preservation of Black life and how our ancestors preserved their life in a time where they were...their life was at stake for living as free Black people, as free people. And so, we are in that time again, unfortunately. I feel like people like to make it seem like it's not as bad as it was. However, we are being…our lives are being exterminated, and our culture and our artifacts and our stories are being wiped away again. 

And, I think liberatory research is ever present in what we need to be accessing from our ancestors and the practice of preserving our lives for the generations to come, because there's no way that the story ends with us, because we are the bloodline of the people who…I like to think that, you know, the circumstances, we got it way better. So, it's like, if they could do it, then we could definitely do it now. We just have to access what we have within us and what we are given, and the alignment of the liberatory research principles coincide with what we can do to preserve ourselves for the future. So.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Yes. Thank you. Anyone else want to weigh in on that before we take some questions from the audience?

Dr. Tia Sherèe Gaynor (she/her)

Yeah. So, when I think about what's happening in the world and all the things that have ever happened across the globe, I can't help but think that they're all rooted in the dehumanization of other people. And when I think about the tools and the practices and the values of liberatory research, I feel like it's rooted in humanity. I feel like it's rooted in a recognition of other people's humanity. And I wholeheartedly believe that through that recognition, there is a recognition of shared humanity. And so, if we can engage in work that deepens our own connection to our own humanity and, as a byproduct, deepens our connection to other people's humanity, and, as a byproduct, deepens our realization and awareness of the ways in which that we are all connected, then we would be making drastically different decisions. Right. Like, if my decision that impacts you is going to impact me, then I'm going to make a very different decision. 

And so, when I think about approaches that are rooted in liberatory research, I really think that these approaches that can root us further into humanity and shared humanity, so that we are shifting our approaches, shifting our lenses, shifting our engagement, shifting our recommendations, shifting the way we make decisions, like fundamentally shifting the way that we exist in the world and the way that we engage with one another. And so, I truly see, like, tremendous value in taking a liberatory perspective in research.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Thank you.

Dr. Brandi Blessett (she/her)

I think the only thing I'll add is that liberatory research is truth telling. Right. I think over the course of my sabbatical, I really had to mourn and grieve the fact that I had been miseducated for all of this time in my life. Right. Like…and it was only until I got into, you know, thinking about or thinking or reading about decolonialization and imperialism and really got into Black feminist thought…like we've been lied to in every aspect of our life—from our media to our education to our politics. Everything. Right. And I think that a liberatory approach is a truth telling approach. And I think, for me, I want to be a truth-teller moving forward. I want to be unencumbered in how I engage in this work, in what I say, in the ways that I do what I do.

And, I think, also knowing…and what I very much appreciate about the liberatory program was that I realized I wasn't alone because I met Jasmine, I met Zuri, I met Miko, I met all of these wonderful people. And even though I might have been struggling with a very small cohort of folks in PA (Pennsylvania), I realized that we're all struggling with this miseducation within and across our respective disciplines. And now, we have a community of practice that I think really fulfills us and supports us in a way that didn't exist before. And so, we all are going to be truth-tellers in the past or on the journeys that we're on and I'm grateful for that.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Thank you. Thank you so much. Jasmine, do you want to close us out? No pressure.

Jasmine Edwards (she/her)

I just…I mean, it would just really be me echoing the offerings. I mean, I think, that it is… liberatory research is rigorous because it is in alignment with what people actually want and value. Right. It is…I feel as though sometimes even the legitimacy of, like, qualitative research is questioned, as a lot of folks have mentioned already. But it is…to me, it's, like, quite the opposite. It's actually not only just checking, but integrating what a community views as valuable within the research project. It makes research better. Yeah.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Yes! Like Tia said, y' all are real deep. Including you, Tia. We are going to open it up to our audience, and I know we're getting close to the end, so we're also going to share our feedback form with you. Having these conversations, it's a really special place and we want to make sure that we're answering questions and bringing topics out about liberatory research in practice that are meaningful to you. So, just, if you can, before you leave…if you're going to be with us for the Q and A, you can answer it at the end, but, if you have to leave out, please take a moment to give us some feedback.

So…amazing panel. We want to give them the opportunity to respond to some of your thoughts and questions and comments. So, if you want to put those in the chat, we will do our best to answer and address all of them as they come through. I also did want to point out some other comments that were made in the chat by folks just weighing in on how impactful what you all are sharing is. Crista, thank you for your comment. And there's also a question about would we be sharing this out? And yes, we do publish the transcript and we'll have more information about all of our panelists on the website afterwards. And we'll share that via email. Miko will send that out to you.

So, while folks are still getting their thoughts together, there was one question…Oh, okay. Well, we'll start with you, Arielle. How do you take all that you learned in this course back to your home academic departments? Alright.

Dr. Tia Sherèe Gaynor (she/her)

You want me to start, Brandi? Okay. I asked because we're literally in the same academic unit. Our offices are right next to each other. So, I think, for me, you know, like, I…so I see liberatory research as an aspect of what I embody, right. And so, when I walk on campus, I am bringing all of this with me. When I engage in conversations, I am engaging in a way that is rooted in these values and principles that are rooted in humanity and shared humanity. When I teach, I am engaging with my students, I curate the curriculum…my class curriculum, in a way that centers this, right. Like, my students don't do papers, and my students are policy students. I have my students generally doing projects, and sometimes they're like creative projects, which really kind of throws them away. But my thought is, if you were going to be working for a nonprofit organization or if you were going to be going into local government, you are going to have to be able to articulate conversations, ideas, thoughts, decisions, whatever it is to folks in community.

And so, that articulation can happen in a number of ways. It doesn't just have to happen in a written form. And so, even through not requiring my students to write papers, I'm rooting in, you know, Indigeneity and more of my ancestral leanings and teachings. And so, it is both what I do and also how I do it. And so, it's difficult for me to say I do step one, step two, step three. Like that's not how I see this. I see this as these teachings, these tools, these skills are part of a larger toolkit. And depending on the context that I'm in, I'm able to go into my toolkit and pull out what I need.

Jasmine Edwards (she/her)

Yeah, I really connect with what you just offered, Tia. And I've noticed how it has influenced my syllabi and the offerings I give to students. And they're often creative by virtue of the profession, as well—like encouraging students to examine their own relationship to music if they're going to attempt to, you know, elicit that from other people.

At the same time, I think I'm remembering some advice, I think, Brandi, you maybe, like, inadvertently offered me in the fall. But, I've had so many times when I've been on faculty at a school and I am the only Black professor, Black woman, and I have felt so depleted sometimes. When I go off to another learning community, like the Liberatory Research course, and I say, like, “Here are all these great things,” and I offer them…and then, it's challenging for me when they're not integrated or when there's still harm that happens with students, despite me trying to get ahead of it. And I think that actually the course helped me take stock in the advice that Brandi offered of what do I really need? And how can I still offer these resources that I think are going to help and protect students, but also protect myself, too, in a system where, like, I'm actually not being compensated to teach all of you all of this—especially when y' all are going to ignore me and keep doing the harmful stuff over and over again. Right.

So, how to, like, protect my energy while still being generous, I think, is the line I'm continuing to navigate. And, as a young…as an early career adjunct, I still have the tendency sometimes to over identify with students and be like, “I have to protect you from this terrible thing,” and, like, really internalize it. And so, you know, letting my caring self come forward, but also caring for me and thinking about my sustainability. Like, if I'm going to be in academia, what do I need in place to sustain myself? And that might mean sometimes stepping back and focusing on my locus of control, focusing on the classroom I'm teaching in, and not taking responsibility for a whole department when I'm not getting paid to be responsible for the whole department. Right. Yeah. Brandi…there’s resonance there.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Thank you, Jasmine. Yes, you definitely are not therapizing your department. But it's tempting, I think, when we have something we know is good and is working for us and we see the benefit and the value, to not want to share those things. Just speaking of, like, what you find valuable, someone asked what text you recommend for getting into participatory action research and maybe there's something…a particular book. You actually showed a whole slide, Brandi, of things that you were reading. And we also have a list on the website of…the Liberatory Research website…of several syllabi that have lists of books. But, I'm curious if there are certain ones that really stood out to y' all that you can offer.

Dr. Brandi Blessett (she/her)

I think the decol…Oh, I'm sorry Ida, go ahead.

Ida Campbell-Jones (she/her)

It's not necessarily, like, a dense academic book, but Black Women Writers at Work by Claudia Tate is a great…just example of practicing engaging interviewing. And I think it was one of the texts that really kind of guided me in the way that I wanted to engage with my participants and observing their work and their experience and kind of that back and forth rapport and, like, actually putting those things into practice in how you want to talk with your participants. Because there's a lot of good stuff on the liberatory research syllabus. So, I was trying to think outside of that…what kind of helped me. 

But, yeah. Like more engaging with works that like practice storytelling and practice what, like, align with the way that you want to work and talk and be, I think, is a great kind of guide in engaging with things outside of, like, dense academic…or not necessarily dense academic…more academic-oriented work.

Dr. Brandi Blessett (she/her)

I think the only other thing—and this is actually on the list—is the Decolonizing Methodologies book. And it's not going to teach you how to do the work, but it definitely helps you think about how you show up in the work, right. How you think about your projects, how you frame them. You understand the role for which white supremacist culture impacts communities in the ways for which they may see you even if you are trying to come in with good intention, right. Because just having good intention doesn't mean that there won't be a harmful impact. 

And so, I think that that book in particular really creates a container for you to think about all of the ways that harm could happen before you even get into the community and so that you can begin to prepare yourself and start to work back, or try to mitigate as best as possible, any harmful behaviors that you may come into a particular project space community with. Recognizing that there's all this baggage associated with research and how people understand research and that book in particular was really helpful for me to really begin to unpack what that means and the various ways for which knowledge can be understood and produced.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Thank you. So much stuff to read, so many good things. There's a textbook that I really love. Decolonizing Methodologies. No, Indigenous Methodologies. It’s by Bagele Chilisa and it's also on the list on the website, as well. But, that one is a textbook and so it has, like, more in-depth explanation of, like, what these methods are that you can use and how to practically apply them. So, that's a good one. It is really long. 

But, one of the other questions that was asked was from Erin: “Thank you for everything you all have shared. For someone who is not in academia but does and wants to do more liberatory research and evaluation as a consultant, what routes and strategies do you suggest to find and secure projects?” So, I know some of you have mentioned doing some consulting work. Could you all weigh in on Erin’s question?

Dr. Brandi Blessett (she/her)

So, Erin, I don't know that…I think it's just what you do. I don't think you're going to find a project that's going to ask you specifically to do liberatory work. Right. Like it's going to have to be…it's just the method that you bring to what you're offering in your evaluation I think more than anything. So, it's not that I don't particularly…in this day and age, I don't think anybody is explicitly going to have a call for proposals like “We want liberatory work.” But, I think that there are ways for when you are in that contract, you're in that work that you can apply those principles in a way that does honor kind of the type of work that you want to do and the type of outcomes that you hope to see in the process.

Dr. Zuri Tau (she/her) | Liberatory Research Founder

Thank you so much. Wow, we are at time! That absolutely flew by. Erin, definitely feel free to also reach out to us. You know, if you want more suggestions, we'd be happy to follow up with you or anyone else that has a question that didn't get answered today. Please reach out to us at Liberatory Research and definitely join our mailing list, if you're not already on it. That's probably how you got here. But, please definitely share out because we'll continue to be offering everything that we can to support you in your practice of decolonizing research, practicing in a way that centering community. 

We're so grateful to this illustrious panel! Thank you so much for spending time with us today and for sharing your insights.Thank you to our community manager, Miko Brown, and to the team here that makes all of this happen. So, see you very soon and have a wonderful rest of your week, y'all. Bye.